OpenX Blog

All Access Pass: Dissecting Header Bidding With OpenX’s Qasim Saifee

By Gavin Dunaway, Senior Editor, AdMonsters

Header bidding (also referred to as tagless bidding) might seem as mysterious as it is exciting. Sure, it’s driving mad revenue for all your publisher friends, but what are these whispers about editing source code, latency and bizarre implementations never seen before in digital advertising? Oh dear, oh my!

Not to fear – Qasim Saifee, OpenX SVP of Monetization Platform, is here to hold your hand through a comprehensive exploration of header bidding and how it enables publisher demand partners to evaluate inventory before the impression even hits the ad server and dynamically enter competitive bids. In addition to walking through the tech basics, Saifee expounds on the benefits for publishers, implementation challenges, where private marketplaces fit and how header bidding is paving a bold future for programmatic transactions.

For the entire AdMonsters Q&A with OpenX’s Qasim Saifee and AdMonster’s Gavin Dunaway, click here.


Insight From The Next Generation: Opportunity and Growth – You Need Both

By Harrison Brunelli, Intern, Business Development 

Many people in technology will have the choice at some point in their career between working at a large company with a mature business and working at a smaller or medium-sized company with a rapidly growing business. My internship at OpenX has shown me the value of working at a company in the midst of its rapid growth stage. Unlike at many large companies where interns work in one function within one department, at OpenX, if you’re interested in a project or initiative that may be outside of your department, people are happy to get your input and help. This allows employees to pursue their passions and grow in ways that would not be possible if there wasn’t a culture of open collaboration.

This culture stems from two of the company’s key values: “OpenX is mine” and “We are one”. At OpenX, employees take ownership of both the company’s successes and the challenges it must face. “That’s not my problem,” are four words you’ll never hear and there is a strong belief that every employee has the potential to solve big problems. I’ve had the opportunity to experience this first-hand.

One afternoon, I was sitting in a weekly business development (BD) meeting, and the mobile team mentioned the massive amount of work currently on their plate. As a member of the BD team focused on display advertising, I have limited knowledge about mobile. Despite my lack of knowledge, I was interested in mobile because of its significant growth over the past few years. I didn’t know exactly how I could help, but I knew I could be of some value, so I offered my time. It turns out the mobile team was in the midst of a major market penetration effort and they could use any help they could get. I had the opportunity to jump in, learn about the mobile aspect of our business, and make a real contribution to the mobile sales effort moving forward. As an intern, I was able to learn a new side of the business and gain invaluable insight in how to form a sales strategy.

My work with the mobile team was not my only experience with being able to contribute to different parts of OpenX’s business. When I expressed interest in working with the private marketplace product, I was also able to lend a hand. This allowed me to get an in-depth look at a product I would have otherwise had little experience with and provided me with the opportunity to gain a better understanding of the needs of the demand-side partners with whom we work. At most companies, an intern wouldn’t have the opportunity to work across functions and teams, and yet, I believe that this is the exact type of experience that can contribute most to a young professional’s development.

Not only did all of these experiences help with my professional development, but it also helped me to deliver better at my core functions on the business development team. Having a deeper understanding of products across the company, and learning how other individuals in the company viewed market opportunities informed all the work I did allowing me to contribute quality analysis and insights to my team.

OpenX’s position on the frontier of so many new developments in the ad tech landscape, in combination with its unique collaborative culture, puts its employees in a position to grow and learn, and for an intern, there is nothing better.




Insight From The Next Generation: When Interning, Diversify

By Grant Gatewood, Buyer Development Intern

As the end of my first month at OpenX approaches, I have begun to reflect on all of the experiences, wisdom and insights that have impacted me throughout my professional career. I thought it would be interesting to share some of the lessons I’ve learned while interning, and the value of diversification. I’ll touch on a variety of my career development experiences, and then discuss what I mean by diversification!

Whether you are a student, graduate, or professional, I believe this post can help you to reflect on your own career experiences, and maybe even influence the direction of your professional career.

Good collaboration skills are essential to one’s success. Whether you are an intern or a full time professional, you must be able to work with a variety of people to get things done. Collaborating is the best way to breakdown complex tasks, learn, and build team chemistry. A tangible example of this comes from my involvement in the Prudential Millennial Case Competition held at my University’s Business School. If my team members and I were unable to bounce ideas off of one another, give feedback, and properly communicate, we would not have done well in the competition. I’ve learned that companies value when interns and young professionals understand and excel in the art of collaboration.

Culture is KEY
“Your own happiness and comfort correlate with your professional success”

As an aspiring entrepreneur (I want to run a start-up one day), I’ve always felt that a strong culture helps to promote organizational success. One of the most important concepts that I have reaffirmed throughout my professional career is the importance of a company’s culture. The culture is what helps a company express/maintain its core competencies, align employees, and influence the work environment. A cultural fit helps to promote your happiness on the job. When working, it is important to remember that your own happiness and comfort correlate with your professional success.

Why work 40+ hours a week in an environment you’re not comfortable in? The answer to this question for many people revolves around salary. The simple model of, “I’d be happier at Job A, but Job B pays more,” influences people to force themselves into positions where there is no cultural fit. Of course, I also understand that everyone has different circumstances and financial situations that may require them to take “Job B.”

At OpenX, I’ve noticed that the culture is what keeps people dedicated, collaborative, happy, and hardworking. When employees really align with culture, it is easy for them to maximize their potential. The culture here is one that values diversity, learning, innovation, collaboration, work/life balance, employee happiness, and a “work hard play hard” attitude.

Absorb EVERYTHING + Stay Humble
“You must learn to find value in even the smallest of assignments in order to stay humble, active, and focused.”

In any internship or career development experience, it is important that one absorbs as much knowledge as possible. A tactic I have used is to find positivity and benefit in every professional experience you have. Whether it is taking notes at a meeting, doing research, talking to someone for five minutes, or developing/presenting a deliverable, you must find value in every task that you complete.

During my Corporate Management Internship with KPMG, I had a plethora of assignments. While some assignments required me to take more of a leadership role within my team of interns, others required me to play a support role as I assisted my managers with some of their smaller projects and responsibilities. I quickly learned that absorbing the value and benefit of every task would make me a better professional in the future.

Using this technique helped me develop stronger talking points for interviews, maintain a positive and humble attitude, and better understand the holistic perspective of my position. Interns must understand that in the work world you are not always occupied with major projects 100% of the time. You must learn to find value in even the smallest of assignments in order to stay humble, active, and focused. Humility is a trait that goes a long way. As an intern or young professional, you want to be humble and learn. Don’t be known as the person trying to consistently outsmart or outshine the CEO!

I believe that this concept is mostly valuable for those still in college (especially freshman/sophomores). If you have no idea where you want to be after graduation (most don’t), this technique may help.

When I say that one should attempt to diversify their resume, I mean that they should try to get themselves involved in a variety of professional experiences (internships, case studies, career development workshops, conferences, etc.). This may seem obvious, but many students limit themselves in varied exposure.

For example, if you’re an Accounting major you could get an internship with a Big 4 Accounting firm one summer, then a tech company the next summer. This way, you can immerse yourself in different networks of people, company cultures, and gain a different perspective of your field. While in college, it is appropriate to try different opportunities so that you can really figure out where you want to be once you graduate. Step out of your comfort zone, have new experiences, and enjoy different opportunities!

Insight From the Next Generation: OpenX Is Mine and So Much More

By: Melissa Cook, Product Operations Intern

As the end of my junior year of college approached, I began the tedious process that every college student dreads – finding an internship. Having learned a lot about the technology and software industries in the classroom and in a prior internship, I was anxious to intern with a company where I could put my knowledge to work. I wanted a company that not only prioritized its customers and employees, but also valued innovation. Enter OpenX.  It might sound corny, but as soon as I read the internship posting for OpenX, which included a list of the company’s core values, I knew that it was somewhere that I wanted to work.  The core values are:

1. We are one
2. Our customers define us
3. OpenX is mine
4. We are an open book
5. We evolve fast

After reading these values, I went down my own mental checklist.  Dedicated to its customers?  Check.  Constantly evolving? Check.  Willing to teach me new skills valuable to the workforce so that I won’t end up still living at home two years after I graduated?  Check (well, hopefully).

Going into the first day of my internship, I wondered if my experience at OpenX would meet my expectations and live up to its core values. So far, it absolutely has. As a Product Operations Intern, I’m focused on creating value for the customer, whether by collecting and analyzing customer feedback to help provide top-notch support, updating customers on the latest OpenX products, or creating training videos to help our employees learn how to access the most current data. The fact that my work and training centers around customer needs truly speaks to the fact that OpenX is a company that is defined by its customers. OpenX takes advantage of every opportunity to make its products better or easier to use for its customers.

At OpenX I have had the opportunity to work on a variety of projects, each of which is constantly evolving. My primary project requires me to generate a report that aggregates customer feedback results weekly and to create performance metrics based on those results.  Even though I started working on this report a few weeks ago, it has already sparked several other projects to better improve the quality of the report. This speaks to OpenX’s fifth core value, which is that it evolves fast. Constant evolution at a company is important to me because it means that the company is working ahead of the curve.

OpenX is truly dedicated to its people. My favorite project so far has been one where I have had the opportunity to really own the project. It is mine. The project, creating a set of training videos to help teach members of our Product Team how to use one of our analytics platforms, is not just my favorite because it’s mine, but because it ultimately promotes unity across the company.  The training videos provide each member of the company with the ability to access information that is integral to what the company does — no matter what project or product they’re working on.  While I’m not exactly making blockbuster films, the training video project was a great experience because I was given the freedom to develop each video from writing the script to executing the screencast and voice overs. Through this experience, I understand first hand that “OpenX is mine” and “We are one.”

Finally, I have experienced OpenX’s fourth core value, “We’re an open book,” during the company’s monthly All Hands meeting. This being my first All Hands, I was unsure of what to expect. Once our CEO, Tim, started speaking, it was clear OpenX values transparency. Tim walked us through the company’s goals, mission and objectives and recognized a number of employees for their recent successes.

Although my future projects have not been mapped out yet, there is no doubt in my mind they will be meaningful and interesting. I have already learned so much in the first half of my internship and am very excited for what the future will bring.  Who knows – maybe you’ll even be seeing one of my films soon!


Insight From The Next Generation: Five Things Every OpenX Intern Should Know

By: Jagriti Agrawal, API Intern

As a rising junior at Caltech, studying Computer Science, I was looking for an internship where I could apply what I’ve learned in the classroom and experience first-hand what it was like to work as a computer scientist in the real world. I started my internship in OpenX’s Pasadena office just over two weeks ago working on OpenX’s API team, which is responsible for creating a user-friendly API that publishers and advertisers can use to input what kind of inventory/advertisements they want to sell or buy. My experience thus far has been both unique and exhilarating, leading me to share following five insights on what it’s like to be a part of the OpenX team.

1) An Awesome Work Environment
One aspect of OpenX that stands out the most to me is the working environment. It’s just the right balance between casual and professional, fun and intellectual, easygoing and fast-paced. Everyone here, including executives, are easily accessible. Executives do not sit in a special, isolated area or in closed-door offices. Instead, the desk space is open and there is no hierarchal seating arrangement. Personally, I prefer an open working environment over one with cubicles. I feel much less hesitant approaching people on my team with questions – the open space really promotes communication and collaboration across teams.

2) What “Honeymoon Phase”?
On my first day here, all of the interns were taken on a tour of the office, attended an orientation, and immediately after that I was a part of the OpenX team, ready to begin my first project. At other companies, you may get a day or two to ‘acclimate’, in other words, find ways to busy yourself until a project is assigned. But at OpenX there is no such thing as a “honeymoon,” during which you might find yourself searching for something to do. I dove right into my first project with the API team the day after orientation. When you decide on OpenX as the place to intern, be ready to jump right in!

3) There’s No ‘I’ in Team
On day one, my manager introduced me to the people on the team – each person I met was welcoming and extremely helpful in my on boarding process. Teamwork and collaboration are huge parts of the culture at OpenX – OpenX embodies the age old cliché, “There’s No ‘I’ in Team.” Even though each person on the team has his/her own tasks to finish called “tickets” it’s very common and encouraged to collaborate with other team members to complete them.

Access to internal communication tools provide the opportunity to find the answer to anything you may need either through collaboration or on your own. Additionally, weekly meetings make it easy for each member of the team to stay up-to-date on current projects, and they also serve as an open forum to discuss any hurdles that have been faced over the past couple days. Staying apprised to what everyone is working on is a crucial part in having a productive and tight knit team and maintains that there really is “No I in Team.”

4) Come NERF Gun Ready
During my first week, out of the corner of my eye I noticed a NERF bullet fly past me. Two team members were casually shooting NERF guns at each other. On any given day you may find the Yield and Monetization teams engaging in a friendly round of darts, someone racing to a meeting on a skateboard, or a few Engineers taking a break with a game of Ping-Pong or the latest version of FIFA. It’s work hard, play hard at OpenX. Coming NERF gun ready is encouraged.

5) Get Ready for a Challenge
As far as work goes, when joining OpenX as an intern, be ready for a challenging internship. My first task is to categorize API clients by the number of requests to the API since both API and UI clients can use it. When first given this project, I felt a little nervous since I was going to be using an unfamiliar tool, called Sumo Logic. Although the learning curve was quite steep, I was excited and motivated to complete the task since I knew I was helping to create something that the company would actually use. I’m working on creating queries to get the information we want and using the database tool to visualize the data in a nice way. I’ll have more to say on my progress on this project next time, but until then, thanks for reading this first post!

Programmatic’s Biggest Challenge

As the global ad industry shifts to programmatic ad buying, fraud remains a top concern – and a moving target. By working with a platform that uses advanced technology to detect fraud, you can stay one step ahead of the fraudsters.

Find out how to stay current, competitive and in control in today’s digital ad marketplace with the infographic below:

OpenX Final Updates


To provide some additional clarity on the current state of programmatic and traffic quality, OpenX’s VP of Marketplace Quality, John Murphy shares his insight and advice for solving programmatic’s biggest problem:

OpenX Intern Series: Insight From the Next Generation

By Bob Hancock, Director, Talent Acquisition

At OpenX, we believe an internship program is more than just an opportunity to build your resume – an internship at OpenX is the opportunity to build long-term relationships, garner new skills from hands-on projects and participate in an all-inclusive workplace where each person has the ability to directly impact the business.

From Pasadena to London to New York to Menlo Park, you won’t find any member of our intern team sitting in a corner doing maintenance work – you’ll find them deep in a fascinating project alongside industry experts helping to build the next generation of OpenX.

Our goal is for each OpenX intern to build lasting relationships that will lead to full-time employment to those who ‘knock it out of the park’.

Over the next few months, the OpenX blog will feature insights into the OpenX internship program directly from the source — the OpenX interns. Exploring their decision behind choosing OpenX, getting an insider’s perspective on problem solving in the ad world and uncovering how to survive and succeed at an Ad Tech Company are just a few examples of what you can expect from the intern team this summer, as they share their uncensored experiences with the world.

Check out the first of OpenX’s “Insight from the Next Generation” series post below:

From Creative Writing to Ad Tech:
Why I Chose OpenX for My Summer Internship

By Harrison Brunelli, Intern, Business Development

As a student majoring in History with a background in creative writing, many people are confused when I tell them that I am an intern on the business development team at an advertising technology company. Although ad tech is a relatively obscure industry to undergrads, and OpenX might not be as commonly known as some tech giants like Facebook or Google, OpenX provided me with the perfect internship opportunity. What ultimately drove me to choose OpenX? My connection to the company’s fundamental statement of purpose: “We exist to help publishers build their businesses by monetizing great content.”


As a Southern California native and someone drawn to the problem-solving ethos that defines much of the technology industry, I was interested in finding a tech company in the LA-area that I could contribute to over the summer. The first question was how I could add value to a tech company. I don’t consider myself a technical person and I certainly don’t have coding or engineering chops. After speaking with individuals working in tech, I quickly realized that the skills that defined a good business development associate were all areas where I thrived: strong communication skills, ability to build relationships, thinking creatively and strategically, and a knack for problem solving.

The more difficult question was figuring out what type of technology company I wanted to work for. I had to determine what kinds of problems I cared most about solving. When I heard about the work OpenX was doing to revolutionize digital advertising, I quickly identified with the fundamental purpose of the company. But how could someone with a background in creative writing and the liberal arts contribute to a business like OpenX? I have a fundamental belief that creative content is essential for any culture to thrive. Great content can come in the form of intellectual dialogue, artistic expression, pure entertainment, and much more. I realized I could use this point of view, in addition to my skillset, to work with the business development team in their efforts to build relationships with publishers and hold meaningful conversations with them about how OpenX can help them build their businesses around great content.

In the digital era, the Internet has become the primary platform for content creators to access their audiences. The internet allows content creators to reach a more broad and diverse audience than they ever could in print and television; however, this transition has made it more difficult for content creators to monetize their content in the same ways that were available in traditional media. I was acutely aware of this challenge because I grew up immersed in print media – learning to read the sports page in first grade, thanks to my Dad’s job in the industry. I knew that for good content to survive and thrive in the digital age a new monetization model had to be developed. I wasn’t aware of a solution until I learned about what OpenX was doing with real-time bidding.

Learning about about OpenX’s capability to allow demand partners to bid on an impression-by-impression basis, driving up revenue for publishers, made such an impact, that I knew I had found a company solving problems that I was passionate about. Conversations with enthusiastic employees actively involved in carrying out this mission only reinforced my confidence that interning at OpenX was the right decision. OpenX’s approach to programmatic advertising is an approach that allows publishers to continue to produce great content in the digital era, and for me that is a problem worth solving.


Getting Forecasting Right: 4 things to consider when thinking about your forecasting tool

By Ben Johnson, Sr. Product Manager at OpenX

Accurate forecasting is a critical tool for anyone in a business selling goods or services. For publishers selling digital advertising, getting it right – or wrong – can have a significant impact on revenues. It’s surprising, then, to see how many publishers settle for tools that are unable to help them maximize their inventory management. While it’s true that forecasting tools have traditionally been cumbersome to use and hit-or-miss on accuracy, there are solutions that break the mold.

There are a variety of factors that complicate forecasting – constant fluctuations in Internet traffic, increasingly complex targeting capabilities, and the dynamic nature of today’s digital sales team. In order to maintain a holistic view of how all of these affect selling your inventory, there are four key attributes your forecasting tool needs to have. They are: data transparency, a consumer-grade user interface, consideration of pre-campaign revenue impact, and accommodation for seasonality.

Data Transparency: Trust but verify

How often do you go back to check the accuracy of your forecast reports? That’s sort of a trick question but an important one nonetheless. Most forecasting engines don’t provide users with that information.

A post-mortem analysis of your forecast report will tell you how accurately you’re selling your available inventory and provide valuable insight that can help pinpoint discrepancies that can be adjusted ahead of the next campaign. More importantly, by regularly comparing what was forecasted to actual results, publishers learn to trust their forecasting systems, and their teams will have more confidence when responding to clients about inventory availability.

Make sure your current or prospective forecasting tool provides you access to the data you need to do a post-campaign analysis in order to assess the accuracy of your forecasts.

Consumer-grade User Interface: Let’s not make it more complicated than it needs to be

Most forecasting systems are difficult to use to start with. That difficulty is compounded when you consider the different users of these tools and why they use them.

Forecasting needs vary from one department to another. For example, direct sales teams generally use these systems when a client asks about inventory availability. Sales team members are naturally more people-focused than software-focused. So, they need a tool that makes it easy for them to go into and out quickly to find the limited information they’re seeking.

Meanwhile, ad ops teams are power users who spend the majority of their day using ad serving software. They need a comprehensive forecasting tool that gives them control over every lever that can be adjusted to optimize campaigns, while also keeping the needs of the sales function  in mind. The right balance can be found in tools that have focused heavily on both creating an intuitive design and building powerful capabilities on the backend.

Another important aspect of intuitive design to consider is the ability to save your forecasts. Your future self will thank you! It sounds so basic, but the ability to save a forecast is not common for most  forecasting systems. They usually limit users to keeping a forecast only as long as their browser remains open. This leaves Sales reps with only limited  – and frustrating – options. They must either export the forecast or take a screenshot of it to send it to a client. Even worse, sales reps might  stumble upon the perfect set of targeting criteria, but without the ability to save the forecast, there’s a good chance that they may never rediscover the exact permutations that led to those results. This can easily lead to loss of the sale.

The solution is simple: your forecasting system should be intuitive enough to work well for users throughout your organization, and include basic functionality like enabling forecasts to be saved so they can be referenced and reused anytime.

Revenue Impact: Go beyond the buying model

If you’re reading this blog post, then you likely operate in a complex advertising environment that runs thousands of campaigns simultaneously. Whenever you consider an offer from a client, there’s always the chance that the hypothetical campaign will divert impressions away from existing ones. Wouldn’t you like to understand the overall revenue impact of the campaign when making your decisions?

The problem is most forecasts typically rely on the buying model as the main tiebreaker when deciding which campaigns should serve over others. But what happens in cases where two campaigns with similar buying models compete for the same impressions? In such cases, price should be the deciding factor. Unfortunately, most forecasting tools can’t take price into consideration.

Forecasting tools should allow your sales teams to enter both the buying model and the price the advertiser is willing to pay, allowing the engine to predict the number of available impressions as well as the net impact on revenue.


Forecasting systems – or people – can’t predict spikes in traffic that occur when unanticipated world events create an impact, but they should take into account anticipated seasonal events. For example,  we know sporting events such as the Super Bowl and the World Series occur annually and affect traffic. We also know the World Cup and the Olympics consistently take place once every four years. Today’s forecasting systems can only track events that happen every year. However, the better forecasting systems allow users to manually override specific anomalies or events whose effects we know will be felt.

Make sure your forecasting tool covers the basics of accommodating for seasonality and also allows you to input information that make it work even smarter.

These features seem like they would naturally be included in any forecasting system worth its salt – and they should be! However, this goes beyond what’s available with the average forecasting tools available today. Data transparency, an intuitive interface, and consideration of revenue and seasonality impacts are all issues that directly affect yield for nearly every publisher I’ve ever worked with.

Forecasting really is the foundation of any ad serving operation, on top of which everything else is set up and executed. So, you can see why it’s important to make sure you have the right tools in place to do it well and to make it accurate. When you do, you’ll see the difference in your top and bottom lines.


OpenX Cares Heard Round The World

When your boss announces the company will be kicking off summer by trying something new, you can’t help but envision relaxing on a beach, catching that big summer blockbuster, or at OpenX, an epic afternoon Ping-Pong tournament. But you may never have considered kicking off summer with a new and different type of opportunity called OpenX Cares.

At OpenX, we spend a lot of time focusing on supporting our people and our business partners. At the same time, we all live and work in broader communities that also deserve our attention. In an effort to meet the urgent and unique needs of each of the broader OpenX communities, we launched OpenX Cares – an initiative where the OpenX offices across the globe joined forces with local non-profits, leveraging our passion, innovation and unparalleled energy to give back to our communities.

OpenX prides itself on its commitment to contributing to community all year round, spanning from Thanksgiving food drives to Adopt-A-Child holiday giving to walking in support of Autism awareness. One of the greatest points of connection for our global company is when we work as one, contributing to each of our local communities. That is exactly what happened yesterday in London, Munich, New York, Pasadena, and Menlo Park.

Here is a recap of the first annual OpenX Cares initiative:


In Pasadena, our team assembled food bags for delivery with L.A. Food Bank – an organization whose singular mission is to mobilize resources to fight hunger across the greater Los Angeles area. Dozens of the OpenX team in our Pasadena office assembled bags for distribution for over 23,000 senior citizens.

Try this


In Menlo Park, members of the OpenX team joined Stop Hunger Now to package meals for the undernourished globally. In just under two hours a group of 30 to 40 volunteers packaged over 10,000 nutrient rich meals for those in need.

Menlo Park


In New York, OpenX teamed up with Only Make Believe, transforming the office into a costume workshop helping kids heal through the magic of theater in the New York City area.

New York


Our London and Munich offices spent the day reclaiming and maintaining green spaces with The Conservation Volunteers in both communities.


OpenX Cares first annual day of giving back was an enormous success with participation from around the world. We’re eagerly looking forward to the next one!

How to Thrive in the Rapidly Changing Programmatic Market?

According to Ian Davidson, Senior Director of Platform Demand at OpenX, advertisers tend to be more nimble and fast-paced than their publisher counterparts. That said, advertisers are often the driving force behind new trends in the fast-changing programmatic industry. Given the pace of change in the industry, success for a publisher can be best achieved by focusing on fast-and-nimble trends while keeping a watchful eye on slow-and-steady trends.

In a recent MediaPost article, Ian examines four key trends in programmatic today – native advertising, private marketplaces, viewability, and brand safety – and makes the case that when publishers keep their clients’ needs front and center, “the algorithms that now buy your inventory will start to pay more for it, obtaining higher CPMs and deriving more value from your content.Read the full piece here.